One of the accused in the alleged rape of the American girl studying at TISS has apparently tried to bring in the old, tired “character-of-the-victim” defence ploy.
Regardless of the specifics of this case, why does anyone even entertain such a plea anymore?
When will we understand that it doesn’t matter if the victim is a prostitute? It doesn’t matter if a woman, at any time of the night, willingly accompanies six males with the intention of having sex with each of them; if she changes her mind before or during intercourse, and a man still persists, it is rape. End of story.
Why do we continue to allow a line of defence that seeks to allocate weights, based on this nebulous, indeterminate and totally subjective thing called “character”, to the categorical refusal of women to have sex? Especially in a country where a woman who wears skirts, smokes or drinks alcohol is either assumed to be no better than a prostitute, or worse, easy game. If that woman happens to be Caucasian, well, all she’s in India for is sex with desirable and sexy Indian men, isn’t she? “Desirable-and-Sexy” apparently being the self-image of every Indian above the age of 15 with a penis.
What a crock of shit.
The Quirky Indian 
April 21, 2009 at 3:19 pm
So true.
The irony that hits me with biting clarity is that the self-appointed “defenders of morals” are the ones desperately trying to find a justification for rape.
April 21, 2009 at 4:26 pm
We live in a patriarchal system and therefore “we” will never understand…Most of the decision makers are male who will never understand or empathize with a woman’s point of view…
Neo: if you notice, the “defenders of moral” are all men and so it is obvious that they will try to justify things like rape…
April 21, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Exactly, what a crock of shit!!!!
I was listening to a radio show a day after the news had come to light. The RJ’s were speaking to a plethora of people and asking them, ‘Is it OK for a girl to move out so late’.
A lady said, ‘It is a different matter whether a girl should move out or not but the fact is that a guy has not been taught to do such things, had it been my son I wud have slapped him and given him to police.’
Am waiting for the day when we grow up as a society per se…be it media, be it judicial system, be it politician, be it as an individual…..
I wish…
April 21, 2009 at 5:42 pm
how can you say that? I mean just look at all the street corners and you find men peeing…how isn’t that indecent exposure? And don’t we see the cops do the same?
I think we have modified the law which applies to most species where show boasting is involved…only problem is the men who framed the so called pathos of society(ya well most of them were men) don’t trust themselves and oh! ya the man in the sky always is there…
oh! I should warn you here , there is a new homophobia trend coming about , calling everything ‘gay’ and stuff…so it means guys have to flirt more to prove that they aren’t gay(ya well forget it ,these people will never understand there is something called a bi) ..and this in places where the educated live..more like a American serial…
See it is getting more and more complex…what would a poor guy do when he was drunk , desperate(when his grand dad by his age had 3 kids?) and a girl who was friendly around? And who knows he probably would soon become bald and would have to use photoshop to cover it up while posting on those online matrimonial sites…and no one would have thought about the wonderful English king , who came up with condoms…or about the fact that you needed approval..maybe they thought they could bribe the cops on this one too…
April 21, 2009 at 6:11 pm
This entire “character smearing” thing is a regressive social hang-over which comes from a predominantly patriarchal system. The courts continue to admit this argument as they continue to deliver many more startling judgments. Not only in India but around the world.
April 21, 2009 at 7:37 pm
It coms from an inherent misogyny. Ever wondereed why a “woman is raped” as if there were no one who did it to her- it makes her seem worse- the reporting that is. And why is character determined solely by what is between one’s legs?
April 21, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Exactly. A whole crock of shit, this. Rape is inhuman, and the guys should first be Bobitted and then hanged slowly, with their parents and friends watching them all the while. A fitting lesson, eh?
-http://writerzblock.wordpress.com/
April 21, 2009 at 9:55 pm
This BS is still going on and on is because there are quite a few who think that maybe rape , is permissible under certain circumstances . Kind of like, “my horniness was under attack when that bitch-of-a-woman walked past me in provoking/normal/victorian clothes, and I raped her is self defense “. Rape is not just an assault on a woman , it is an assault on the society . If we do not take it seriously , then we all suffer directly or indirectly .
April 21, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Reminds me of the Jessica Lal case and the Jethmalani nonsense.
This is the kind of thing that makes mothers of daughters stop them from going out at night…and in turn sending a signal to the sons that it is wrong and dangerous for a girl to venture out after dark. What a vicious circle.
April 21, 2009 at 11:07 pm
Thank you for this post.
April 21, 2009 at 11:16 pm
I am beginning to think it is true. After all, Scarlet Keeling deserved it and so did the German girl Fuchs. Either get sex out of the closet or lock your girls inside them.
April 22, 2009 at 5:08 am
Why did the boy file a case so late? He must be surely connected and if not he would have dug the connection somehow…
April 22, 2009 at 7:03 am
QI, Your title says it all. This is exactly how things are still perceived in India. Here a woman can’t even complain about marital rape because such a thing doesn’t exist. So imagine this girl’s plight.
In a male dominated society it will take another 1000 years of things to change. Actually, why blame just men, I am sure many women would also blame the girl for drinking, wearing short dress and going out with her male friends at night. She shouldn’t. Nightlife is only for men so if a women is out at that time then she must want sex and she is immoral.
If she is caucasian then it is also natural for her to have sex with every tom, dick and harry.
Your last line is apt about a lot of situations we see.
April 22, 2009 at 8:10 am
Merely by existing, a women is seen as a fair game. I mean how dare she appear before male eyes when she knows she can be raped? N then going out in a group of men – hai hai !
Using this plea in a court of law – sigh ! When will we learn?
April 22, 2009 at 8:27 am
we Indians walk around leering at women and this, the next step is so stupid……..
when will we improve as a society…. or as gentlemen
April 22, 2009 at 8:39 am
Quirky Indian it seems one of them said they did not expect her to complain? Didn’t she know she will be blamed and her character and lifestyle shredded and analysed for evidence of complicity and provocation.
A good Indian girl would never have complained.
April 22, 2009 at 12:35 pm
We Indians have double standard for a lot of things… And somehow, the female of the species is always in the lower standard! Grrr…
April 22, 2009 at 5:29 pm
‘What a crock of shit. ‘ Precisely !!!!
It is so sad that as your title says ‘
If A Woman is Out with Male Friends Late at Night, She Must Want Sex.’ The sad thing is that not just men, even women seem to think like this – that she asked for it!!! Until that attitude changes – things like this and women not reporting rapes, women being forced to ‘marry’ their rapists etc will continue to happen… Sad!
April 22, 2009 at 6:42 pm
QI
You will like Nita’s post on how we apportion blame. Interesting read; don’t miss the comments.
April 22, 2009 at 6:54 pm
we are far from being a civil society yet. we are far from being a just society yet. remember Scarlette Keening? Or Priyadarshini Mattoo?
April 23, 2009 at 11:57 am
I have sons, and they have been taught to respect women. These guys have not been taught right. Rape is NOT about sex, it is about aggression, about behaving like an animal. Womens’ character is not the question. Its like saying women should wear burkha because men cant control themselves. You said it “What a crock of shit”
April 23, 2009 at 7:42 pm
I get very irritated wen i read this kind, wish women were 200 times stronger than men; then he wud be petrified to even think leave alone talk abt her short dress..
If I could punch his face till his nose is knocked off the face..it stil wouldn’t be enuff
April 24, 2009 at 3:26 am
Nice post and very much on the ball! It’s such a load of crap, isn’t it? Every woman who is raped or sexually abused has her character further smeared by the bloody courts and lawyers. I’d like to say that education about sex and that it is not right to force a woman if she does change her mind may make a difference. But then again, it might not. When are these men going to understand that it doesn’t matter if a woman is walking around in a bikini…they still have no right to give in to their penises!
April 24, 2009 at 10:06 am
Good post. Women in tribal communities ( who have a more equal society) cover less area of their body but the males are not Rapists there. This shows that the Feudal patriarchial system may be the reason for the violence against women
April 24, 2009 at 5:41 pm
But Quirky, I don’t think Indians had such a high opinion about themselves!
But yeah, this is a baseless plea… At most, they could plead that it was consensual…
April 24, 2009 at 6:11 pm
@Neo: As other readers have commented, it’s very easy to find a justification: just blame the woman. The application of morals is very selective.
@Bones: True, unfortunately.
@Smita: We’re all waiting……there seems to be no movement. But all we can do is wait.
@Vishesh: I’m sure they thought they could get away with it. Everyone gets away with everything anyway.
@Caesar: Yes, the regressive social hang-over is not confined to India. But it is among the countries where this disease is more deep-rooted.
@Allytude: Misogyny, and a warped power structure. As Ritu has pointed out, it’s also an expression of power.
@Pal: I know where you’re coming from, even if, as a male, one can’t truly understand the pain; but I’m still not in favour of extra-judicial measures.
@Kislay: You’re right, but do we see any change?
@Anita: That’s insightful….yes, it is a vicious circle….
@Sonal: Isn’t it pathetic that posts like this still have to be written? That the obvious still has to be stated?
@Kartikey: Yes, indeed. That’s an aspect we all neglect – that of getting sex and sexuality out of the closet. But, as our aversion to any kind of sex ed shows, we would rather continue with the status quo.
@Vee: The legal system is full of loopholes, and the lower courts are quite pathetic. One must wait and see if they unravel the truth. Even if they do, it will take decades.
@Solilo: It’s all so inter-connected – the culture, the laws and legal recourses available, the quality of the police, the overall index of gender sensitivity…we have to fix them all. As Anita pointed out, it’s a vicious circle.
April 24, 2009 at 6:36 pm
@Ava: Yes, women should preferably remain indoors, and should be covered head to foot when they do come out. How dare they provoke the males? Which they do merely by existing. Truly pathetic.
@OG: You know my answer to that: never.
@IHM: A good Indian girl would never had gone out with boys, would never have drunk, and of course, you’re right, would never have complained after that. She would have just blamed herself.
@Sakhi: We have double standards in everything. I had friends in college who happily and eagerly dated the contemporary kind of woman, but only wanted the submissive, traditional kind of wife…
@Smitha: I wonder when things will change….I don’t think they will.
@Shefaly: Thanks…I liked the post, and the comments. A comprehensive discussion.
@Astralwicks: And that’s the sad part: will we ever be a just society? Will we ever be a civil society?
@Ritu: It is about aggression, it is about the man looking upon the woman as some kind of ‘property’, and it is about a moral standard that sees nothing wrong in a man raping a woman, because the fault is always the woman’s.
@Mystiquedew: That’s where the law comes in, where society comes in. These are the instruments of the civilised (who are seen as weak)…when these instruments fail with regularity, as in India, you know there’s a serious problem.
@Psych Babbler: Perhaps sex education and a more civil society (with some effective deterrents) might work.. it has worked elsewhere. Not perfectly, but better than here.
@Charakan: It’s not just the feudal patriarchal system, though it plays an important part. It is also our whole culture of looking at sex as ‘dirty’ and keeping it in the closet. As long as we don’t encourage sex ed and teach the right things about sex and sexuality, things will not change.
@Rakesh: Strangely, your comment went into the spam folder, and I can’t figure out why! Yes, the claim that it was consensual is a valid defence….but not based on the particular premise in this case: “what was she doing out with so many men late at night?”. That implies some very serious moral judgments. Like I said, it doesn’t matter if she was a prostitute. It doesn’t matter if she came on to the guy….as long as she said “no” to sex, it wasn’t consensual.
You’d be surprised at how high an opinion of themselves most Indian men have – particularly when it comes to their ‘attractiveness’ to caucasian women!
April 24, 2009 at 9:09 pm
Don’t know about high opinions but which man with a good level of self esteem would force himself on a woman who doesn’t want him? Sad sad men!
April 24, 2009 at 10:27 pm
🙂 I thought this would be a long post but simple and to the point.
I agree, just a NO should be enough, but people just dont accept that.
Unless you scream yell hit and scratch it will not be taken as a rape enough!
April 25, 2009 at 6:44 am
It’s heartening to know the mentality still boils blood. I shudder to think how it would be if everyone, like me, went past the turmoil and just smiled with pity (for the disillusioned men) instead.
g
April 26, 2009 at 9:24 am
QI,
As you know, this behavior is a common practice in any country where woman are at the lowest side of the social ladder.
But I didn’t know that India’s behavior was similar to Muslim countries…
April 27, 2009 at 10:11 am
she may, but not necessarily from the ppl she is out with…and that has to be respected
the character talk is quite bullshit…the only character that is indisputably bad is of the rapist(s)…
however having kept that trivial discussion apart a few things one would like to discuss
she was alone with 6 guys in their flat…either she trusted them like anything or she was naive…one of the guys confessed i believe otherwise a drunk woman passed out, no fight marks, no witnesses…no way would any lawyer in any court be able to prove that it was non-consensual…
while girls have been for sleepovers at our places and that too with no other gal pal around, and its a common place happening elsewhere also…but i’d say one mst try one’s best to be sure abt the kind of company we keep.
another point which has been ignored is what if a girl actually does consent and later calls it rape…hypothetical but quite possible…in rare cases where malicious intent maybe involved…dont let ekta kapoor read this though otherwise there’ll be one more serial on air 😛
April 28, 2009 at 9:53 pm
You’ve said it all and said it well.
To top it all, our laws don’t make it any easier for the victims.
April 29, 2009 at 1:04 pm
oh QI! when will stop laying the onus ofthe crine on the victim?!
NOTHING gives anyone a right to rape another person! there is no “asking for it”!
when will these phrses be erased for good and now allowed atleast in court of law! 😦
this makes me SO mad!
April 30, 2009 at 12:04 am
You have said it all.
April 30, 2009 at 12:15 am
Every women should dress in a burkha and all men should wear T-shirts which say, ‘thank you for not provoking my uncontrollable lust’
P.S: Idea flicked from somewhere else 😛
May 3, 2009 at 6:59 am
Wonder why there aren’t ‘chastity’ belts for men. Wouldn’t that make the world a better place?
May 5, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Cant agree more. Its high time there should be a leverage in the way issues are handled @ journalism or in the courtroom to count a few.
Been introduced to you blog via Tazeen’s. Its worth a blog to bookmark! Thumbs up for this and the rest of the posts! 🙂
May 7, 2009 at 10:40 pm
You have a pretty neat blog.
June 1, 2009 at 10:30 pm
That is because it suits the male psyche to have a reason to behave like animals whenever the urge takes over.
June 10, 2010 at 10:40 pm
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