Indyeah wrote two passionate posts on why the freedom of expression should be restricted so as to not offend certain people. I left a comment on her blog, but had some further thoughts, so I may as well write on it here. I wrote:
“I agree, freedom should be accompanied by responsibility. However, the responsibility can never be ‘forced’. If I were to give my position in one line it is this: Your freedom of expression has more value than my right not to get offended.
I might disagree with your statements, your books, your drawings, your views. But I cannot deny you the right to have that freedom. I might not allow it on my blog (because that’s my property), but I will never question the freedom you have to put it on yours, or the freedom of other people who show the stuff on their blogs/newspapers/channels.
Freedom of speech and expression can never be compromised. Because once you compromise and give in to one pressure group – however loud or violent their methods, or however hurt they may be – you have opened the doors for everyone else to come in. And that is the end of freedom. Yesterday it was Rushdie, MF Hussain, Taslima Nasrin. Today you have objections to Water, Fire, Deshdrohi, the term “Slumdog”, and the term “Barber”. Tomorrow it might be something equally stupid. Once you give in to one group, and compromise, what reason can you give other groups? That their offended feelings are not good enough? Where do you draw the line?
Every freedom, every liberal principle derives from the freedom of expression. Take it away once, and you are already rolling downhill towards intolerance. India is a prime example.
And for all those who are offended: please don’t watch the films, read/buy/gift the books, view the cartoons, see/buy/gift the paintings, or put up links to those on your blogs. But you can’t stop the person from his right to have that opinion, and the rights of others to publish or display it.
For example, you may choose to not publish this comment. You have every right to do so, as it is your blog. But I have every right to retain my views, and express them freely on my blog, or on any other platform that might allow me to do so. Ditto for Rushdie, MF Hussain, Taslima, Danny Boyle and the girls who went to the pub in Mangalore.
Because the moment the state upholds the right not to be offended over the right to free expression, it is just a matter of time before Mangalore happens. Please remember that.”
Further, my view is that anyone who believes that Rushdie, MF Hussain or Taslima should have exercised “creative restraint” (an oxymoron) is no different from Muthalik. Shocking? Let me explain why.
Implicit in Indyeah’s argument is the judgment that the hounding of Rushdie, the killings of Theo van Gogh and Hitoshi Igarashi, the vandalism, violence and persecution that MF Hussain, Taslima Nasrin, Deepa Mehta and the supporters of Laines’ work have been subjected to were ‘invited’, because their works and expressions hurt people, ‘immature’ people who then resorted to violence as a form of protest. It is also implied that ‘creative restraint’ would have negated the need for ‘provoked’ violence.
So how is this different from Muthalik? He is offended that Indian women were drinking alcohol and wearing clothes that hurt his sentiments – both of which were legitimate ‘expressions’ of the women concerned. Legitimate expressions of emancipation, modernity, an independent income, a culture they believed in, legitimate expressions of their right to choose. Muthalik and his goons were offended, and they resorted to violence, exactly like the Islamic fanatics in the case of Rushdie and Taslima, and the Hindu fanatics in the case of Hussain, Mehta and Laines. By the same logic, if the women had exercised ‘restraint’, the violence (implicitly ‘invited’ and ‘provoked’) would never have happened.
What gives any of us the right to condemn the latter, without condemning the former? Who am I to decide that Muthalik was wrong in feeling offended – and resorting to violence – but that the people who attacked Hussain et al. were legitimately offended and worthy of support?
I feel her argument condemns Muthalik (and rightly so), but seeks to exonerate (against every civilised principle) the other goons for similar crimes.
Freedom of expression cannot give in to pressure groups. And to counter her argument’s biggest fallacy, it is not just about artists glorifying genitalia (and so what if they do?) – it is about all of us and our choices. Once you compromise, where do you draw the line? There will be more Muthaliks tomorrow who will be offended by the most trivial things, none related to art.
Indyeah mentions, in support of her thesis, that we already have restrictions on our fundamental rights, so why the fuss? Correct. The exceptions to the Right to Freedom are so vaguely worded that the government can see just about anything as violating all of those provisions. But the fact that it’s a fait accompli doesn’t make it right.
She asks, what is the solution in India? No one knows. But I know the solution does not lie in curtailing freedom. It does not lie in capitulating, as the state has, to certain pressure groups – because that only signals to others that the state is willing to compromise, depending on the levels of noise and violence. The battle’s lost right there. Such surrender, and restrictions on freedom, will only embolden newer fanatics. Is that what we want?
Finally, contrary to her assumption, I have no illusions about India ever turning into a civilised, tolerant nation. I would, however, value freedom of expression because it is one of the few things that will slow – not stop, just slow – our inevitable transformation into a banana republic. We’re almost there, anyway. While it is my fond hope that it doesn’t happen in my lifetime, I’m not holding my breath.
February 12, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Quirky Indian,:)Sir, let me first just say that thank you so much for such a well presented answer..because the last time I was trying to get my point of view across to someone else,I was on the verge of tearing out my hair…
And to be truthful,I was really hoping that you would do a post on this:)
SO that I would have atleast one sane and coherent voice which would present to me the other side of the debate…
WOuld just like to say that yes,your points are valid….
But you see India going towards being a Banan republic albeit slowly,I hope it won’t….
who knows in a few years I might be saying the same thing:)
In this instance I am sure both of us can agree to disagree…:)
I am just a very confused soul right now..:)
SO I am as clueless I suppose..
have had a lot of freedom talk lately…and a few painkillers to go with it:D
Can I just say that thank you for a well presented and point by point ,coherent rebuttal and leave it at that?
Thank you:)
February 12, 2009 at 8:08 pm
I agree with you on the freedom of expression. One has a freedom to express, the other has the freedom to criticise.
February 12, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Bravo! You’ve said it all, I see no reason to add my own (less eloquent) two cents.
February 12, 2009 at 10:28 pm
@Quirky Indian I agree with you. And I feel strongly about my freedom. It is difficult for one to be free, if some others are being openly disallowed their freedom … so I think, for true harmony and peace, we all should be free.
And “The exceptions to the Right to Freedom are so vaguely worded that the government can see just about anything as violating all of those provisions. But the fact that it’s a fait accompli doesn’t make it right. ” … but I hope we are waking up and we will not let India become a banana republic.
We just needed an awake middle class, and finally it looks like the Indian middle class is waking up, very peacefully and tolerantly.
I hope … I mean am hopeful.
February 12, 2009 at 11:09 pm
A very articulate post, I must admit, on a rather convoluted issue. I congratulate you that you actually presented ‘the broader perspective’ – that people like us, the aam aadmi, miss while we discuss the monstrosity of a Muthalik here and a Thackeray there.
But Dear Q.I (if I may take the liberty of addressing you so i.e), don’t you think your arguments (both solid and valid)expose a rather resident paradox of ‘liberty and restraint’. After all when you draw (very just) parallels of feathers being ruffled by both Rushdie and Muthalik alike you are actually pondering on the viability of establishing a pan-human “aesthetics standard”,which I am sure you will agree, is nothing but an idealist’s pipe-dream. So where do we draw the line between the safe and the scurrilous ? Between the sacrosanct and the salacious? Who sets these standards and how? Should/could they be etched on stone and never again fiddled with ? All these melts down to the question – Can there be human consensus ever? To that the answer is an emphatic “NO”.
If one has to cultivate the mutually contesting ideals of ‘Liberty’ and ‘Restraint’ within the same society there needs to be a dominant tribe of ‘thinking individuals’ who can do justice to the inherent dynamic nature of such a society. They should be the ones who are able to dictate terms as to what constitutes ‘the unacceptable abuse of creative freedom’ that might hurt religious sentiments or long standing moral values. As to the possible cropping of questions of “What are values? Why do we need ‘thinking men’ at the helm?” in a nation like ours, I think then we can surely infer that ‘the days of the banana republic’ is here. Till then, let us all enjoy our oranges in peace while others quarrel over its colour.
February 13, 2009 at 12:48 am
Beautifully worded argument. Been following you for a bit, thoroughly enjoy what you write.
February 13, 2009 at 12:57 am
Agree completely QI. But I’m afraid whether such a thing as complete freedom is indeed possible.
I believe, all freedom is valid as long as you do not cause any problem to another being. Again what constitutes a problem is a tricky thing. For some neighbours, listening to loud music in the night might be a problem, while for others, watching public display of affection might be a problem. Where do you draw the line again?
I guess, it is best if each one of us learns to be tolerant of others and leave the deciding to the law.
February 13, 2009 at 1:16 am
QI,loads of traffic from your blog..:)though only one comment…another long debate?Please god no!I have not recovered from the previous one yet..:)
did you read Nimmy’s BTW?Just curious:)
February 13, 2009 at 3:26 am
Well done. Hope this will settle the ‘confusion’ in this issue atleast in the liberal blogosphere.
February 13, 2009 at 3:29 am
Let me add last comment was from an insane and incoherent voice
February 13, 2009 at 4:03 am
Good analysis dude… and it fills me with despair. We are soon going to press the “self destruct” button and I hope that it does not happen in my lifetime…………
February 13, 2009 at 4:11 am
QT, For past one week I have had enough of this freedom argument. It was difficult to see the other side because there was no clarity.
Here you have put forward your points coherently and it is easier to read and understand the other side this way.
In the end as I have said somewhere else ‘True freedom is a Utopian philosophy. We are never going to achieve that because we are bound by laws.’
February 13, 2009 at 8:04 am
Doesn’t all freedom come with responsibility? Do we have a system where all are brought up with identical values and ethics so nobody crosses invisible lines? Tolerance is a much abused word..as is freedom. Are we saying that actions are less open to criticism than reactions? Who draws the lines?
February 13, 2009 at 11:57 am
This is a fair analysis on the Indyeah’s post to an extent. While I agree with absolutely on the point that Freedom should be weighted more than the my right to get offended in any case. For an instance an artist has a all the right to freedom of expression and to portray what they imagine.
However in this case artist often cases have a capability to inspire and involve people. So, people expect them to move the society forward, not backward.
So what possibly is meant by the the words @by saying that this is artistic freedom…
It is meant to serve as a doctrine to the artist that their work may betaken literally and hence as a society are expected to be subtle and care in their depiction.
Aren’t Sita, Drapudi, and Sati, to me just ficitious character, someone’s imagination, taken way too seriously in India.
As for the comparative which are drawn between Goons and Artist, all I can say is Goons don’t have a prospective they have agenda, hence….
Hope I didn’t digress..
February 13, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Well, I saw the painting by MF Hussain . And I was offended . But I am not baying for his blood . I consider him as an Indian . But I would like to know why , did he paint them all nude ?
February 13, 2009 at 5:39 pm
This deserves a post in response
/*Finally, contrary to her assumption, I have no illusions about India ever turning into a civilised, tolerant nation. */
I understand,many of friends don’t believe in it either.And while I do care and what to be a catalyst in change,if the country is not willing,then I will simple leave…
P.S: I remember you commented in my blog before as well(i.e. before the latest post),go to profile and add this URL to contact info as well as make it the primary blog,your name then will be linked to this place
February 13, 2009 at 11:54 pm
Kislay, let me try to answer your question. Unlike the Abrahamic religions Indian religions originally did not have any fear of naked human body or sex. When you read many of our Puranas you will realize that sex and beauty of human body had a prominent place in them.Thats why there are so many nude and semi nude sculptures in our ancient temples. With the advent of modern religions we also got influenced by it and began to consider sex and human body as something immoral and to be hidden. Seeing Hussein’s painting in this background I did not felt offence. This is a subjective reaction. You have every right to feel offended but need not destroy or ban the painting.
February 14, 2009 at 1:21 pm
I saw the painting and I was angry and revolted. If nudist paintings are considered artistic, why were his daughter and mother clothed?
How far does this artistic license extend to – so far : hindu gods have been printed in bikinis,superimposition of Lord Vishnu’s picture with Jimi Hendrix’s face, using garland made of slippers for gods – how much more?
I am tolerant towards your belief system or non-belief system, why are you unable to extend the same courtesy towards me?
My question is where does creative liberty crossover to blasphemy and who guards the thin line between them?
For a family to prosper all its members need to work together, compromise and be tolerant towards each other. The same goes for a society.
February 14, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Nothing to add to this good post (it’s my freedom to not add something
)
Same as you, I have no so much illusions…
See what the Hindu Nationalist Movement is doing…
What if they get the power?
By the way, have you seen the last news concerning this group?
I posted about its new drink…
Maybe it will become a mandatory drink there…
Good luck
http://fvarga.wordpress.com/
February 14, 2009 at 6:33 pm
hmm…a pingback hasn’t arrived here
February 15, 2009 at 6:50 pm
[...] -Of freedom and expression and the right not to be offended [...]
February 16, 2009 at 2:10 pm
@Indyeah: The idea was to examine every point of view. And yes, we can agree to disagree. The world would be very terrifying without voices of dissent and disagreement. I read Nimmy’s posts too.
@Allytude: It’s the bedrock of any civil society!
@LM: Thanks.
@IHM: Hope is important….if there’s no hope, there’s no change.
@whatsinaname: You’re right, there can be no consensus ever; we will get the sacred with the sacrilegious. But in all of this, the freedom of expression must prevail over every accusation of smut or blasphemy. Because the creator of smut, or of a blasphemous piece of art does not force you to see/read her work….no one forced people to read Rushdie or watch Wilder’s film or see Hussain’s paintings. If it offends me, I can choose to ignore it, stay away from it, recommend to my friends and family that they too stay away from it. Why should I contest the individual’s right to her view? If I can exercise the option not to engage with the offending work, and recommend the same to others (restraint!), why should I trample upon the liberty of the other individuals to create, or engage with the ‘offending’ works?
And shades of Plato in your proposed solution!
@Jhayu: Welcome, and thanks!
@Rakesh: Loud music at night intrudes into my physical space…..PDA, on the other hand, offends my moral sensibilities. Big difference. But you’re right, the best solution is to be tolerant of the rights of others to express themselves.
@Charakan: Welcome and thanks…haven’t understood your second comment, btw.
@Ajit: As I mentioned, we blew it! What a waste.
@Solilo: Laws are necessary for any society to exist, but freedom is necessary for any society to progress. Most freedoms that people seek to curtail are those where the offence is “moral” or “religious”. I have no sympathy for those calls for restraint.
@Anita: Welcome. Thanks for the comment. Responsibility can never be coerced. If I cross a line and I offend you, you have the right to protest, to make a counter-argument, to criticise, and to get other people to see your point of view, to get other people to criticise me as well. You have the right not to purchase my book, watch my film, or visit my exhibition. You have the right not to sell my book if you have a bookstore, or show my film if you have a theatre. You do not have the right to kill, assault, firebomb, threaten, or ask me not to express my views. The lines are so subjective, that once we start drawing them, we will never be able to stop.
February 16, 2009 at 2:25 pm
@Chirag: As I keep saying, you have the right to criticise, and put forward your own point of view. You can protest, peacefully of course. But you can’t ask me not to express my views, whether as an artist or an individual. Because there will always be someone who finds something offensive. Where will you stop? Soon, everything will be banned.
@Kislay: You have a right to be offended. You have a right not to show/display his paintings on your blog, in your house, on your property. But you can’t ask question the right of someone else to show it on her property. Nor can you question Hussain’s right to paint what he does. You can criticise, but you can’t muzzle. Exactly what Charakan is saying.
@Charakan: See above.
@Vishesh: I seriously consider leaving sometimes. Perhaps I will, one day. The pingback is finally here. Thanks for the mention.
@Genosign: If we started drawing these lines you speak of, we will only be drawing lines, since there will always be something that offends someone. Eg, Slumdog, Barber etc. If I were to choose between freedom and not offending, I would choose freedom, because once I give in, somebody will find something offensive in everything. So what do we do then?
@Fvarga: The environmentally friendly drink! Pepsi, Coke: watch out. India has arrived!
February 16, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Quirky, Read the very first comment for this post. Then you will understand what I meant in my 2nd comment.
February 16, 2009 at 5:48 pm
my logic has always been fairly simple. as long as it is within legal realms, no one should have a right to get violent and beat you up, break your shop or burn your books and paintings.
if they wanna BUY it and then burn it to show their protest, let em do that too. but they cannot go and hit the artist or author.
absolutely not done. just the way muthalik had no right to come and hit those girls because he got offended.
i dont understand why we insist on getting ruffled everytime someone draws our gods in derogatory way or calls a barber… a barber! its a bleddy profession, aint it now?
fact is God wont becoem any less God because someone else painted it differently. and nhai will still be nhai in my head even if i call him a hair dresser or stylist or whateva else they wanna call me!
even His Exalted Hair Specialist! :p
agree with your argument completely!
cheers!
February 17, 2009 at 8:01 am
Freedom is all about limits and recognising them IMHO QI. Your freedom ends where my nose begins. And it is not about pushing the limits to see how far one can go without triggering a reaction.
…not that I agree with those rushdie or Sania fatwas or the sene circus…
February 17, 2009 at 10:06 am
I agree with you on how we are witnessing this race to be secular, which mostly comprises of criticizing Hindus while letting off other communities for their crimes.
Crime is crime, and should be seen independent of religion. Someday maybe we will rise above this sillyness!
I don’t agree on the closing point though…about India almost being a Banana state. I like to think that even though we have many disruptive elements, the people who care feel strongly enough to not let them run over the nation.
February 18, 2009 at 2:46 pm
I agree.
February 18, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Great post. Keep writing.
February 19, 2009 at 12:11 am
I agree with most of the points in the post.
But does freedom of expression also include the freedom of propagating lies as in the Laines case or some of the MF paintings? Then why do we have defamation suits?
May 26, 2009 at 9:43 pm
[...] Quirky Indian for “Freedom of speech and expression can never be compromised. Because once you compromise and give in t…“ [...]
September 9, 2009 at 8:20 pm
Hello, Quirky Indian!
I hope you remember you’d directed me to this post from my post–’Figures of speech’.
I’m a bit confused. You simply wanted me to read this post, or was it in response to my feeling (more than) offended at what our then and current PM had to say?
If it is former, that is simply, wanting my views, then I totally agree with you. That there should be complete freedom of expression. But I’d also add a small clause. Our opinions should be well-reasoned especially, if we’re pinpointing to the choices others/a community makes. But of course, what is ‘reasoned’ and what ‘malicious’ would remain quite subjective.
Abusive words would not constitute ‘opinion’. ‘Dishonest’ with citing of specific relevant instances is an opinion, not ‘dog’ or ‘animal’ or incestual explitives.
But if you referred me to this post to point how our PM had a right to his opinion, then I’d like to point out he was speaking in capacity of head of the state. His opinion was not aired at a family get together. It was supposed to serve as template for future economic and social policies. He may have a right to indulge in nonsensical babble on occasions, but no right to go against the principles of the Constitution by making nonsensical policies while he had been occupying a public office on taxpayers’ money.
Your article is really well written and analyzed. But am hoping for a clarification.
TC.
September 10, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Ketan, you are right in feeling offended at what the PM said in his capacity as head of state. And what I meant by my comment on your blog where I mentioned political correctness (PC) was just this: that we have become so constrained by PC that we have stopped calling a spade a spade. The PM’s statement was ridiculous, and ought to be condemned. But there is an army of PC advocates who will vigorously defend such statements as long as the (alleged) beneficiaries are any disadvantaged or allegedly disadvantaged group – whether religious, social, economic or otherwise. On being told that such arguments are actually against the principle of fairness, or in a strict sense, equality of access and opportunity, their standard retort is that historical wrongs have to be addressed. OK, so they have to be addressed. But how far back do we go? Who draws the line, and where? 50 years, 100, 600, 1000, 2000 years even? You are opening up a can of worms if you do that, and you’re not really being either principled or fair with your arbitrary and subjective cut-offs….just like with freedom of expression, there can never be a ‘limit’, as such a limit will always be subjective.
Wouldn’t it make more sense in ensuring that the existing schemes to help the disadvantaged are implemented more effectively, reach those they are meant to reach, are not cornered by a ‘new’ elite etc? But of course, all this means actual work. It is so much easier for politicians and the PC brigade to make such statements, and so much easier to continue fooling the people.
I hope this explains what I was trying to say.
September 11, 2009 at 1:20 am
Hello again Quirky Indian!
Thanks for clarifying. Honestly, I’d not been able to get your point in directing me here, though enjoyed reading the article thoroughly. And now I understand why.
Yes, I’ve noticed PC has assumed ridiculous degrees, unfortunately, among influential and educated people. It’s become fashionable to assume certain positions on governance and economics, that it’s started becoming nothing less than peer pressure to stick with them irrespective of context!
My opinion of PM’s statement is not that it is ridiculous, but that it was outrightly malignant.
What’s shocking in light of such statements is that he’s still regarded as a messiah of secularism, and someone with ’sound’ economic policies for the country. People forget that economics is not merely money and arithmetics. It’s also about social engineering, education, jobs.
The issue is not only about PC. With repeated abuse of words like ’secularism’ and ‘minority’, people have forgotten their original meanings!
The PM’s statement is possibly communally most divisive I have ever heard. Why? Because he’s not talking of a temple or a mosque here. But implying, India is a Muslim state, and hence, Muslims will get a preference in dispension of natural as well as financial resources. How more anti-secular and pro-religion could one get?
What does the word ‘minority’ signify anyway? I think the most disadvantaged are the ones with lower incomes. I’ve not checked in long time, but I think one-third of population was below poverty line, and considering that with rising inflation, the per capita income-demarcation must’ve been rendered impractical. So the really financially disadvantaged must constitute about 60%. Is that ‘minority’?
You’re right about ‘how far do we go?’. Also, not to forget, we’ve a much more objective criterion–the economic one. I remember, there was one proposal by a researcher to award points for economic status, caste, urban v/s rural background, education level of parents, etc for various kind of aids in jobs/education. But somehow, such proposals have never been considered.
What I find even more disgusting is the unfair coverage by the media in such issues.
I also find it unfortunate that even a few manipulative bloggers are a part of such systematic fooling of fellow herd-like bloggers, only I can’t think of a motive. Well, I understand that’s a very radical thing to say, but am sure you must’ve noticed it.
Thanks again!
TC.